Can you smoke blue lotus in the military

It’s honestly pretty wonderful! I put 5g of blue lotus flower in there, 3g damiana, and about half a teaspoon of mulungu extract 2x at around 190 degrees F. Steep for 2-5 minutes depending on the strength you want and sip sip sip away! I love putting damiana in there because blue lotus by itself is pretty bitter.

Blue Lotus itself is not detectable by urinalysis. Most products labeled as Blue Lotus contain synthetic cannabinoids, which is detected through testing. I was under the impression that herbs such as blue lotus, damiana and wild dagga were great alternatives for someone looking to ditch the cannabis…. Don't know how pleasant they are to smoke though. Not sure about chamomile. People use all sorts of stuff. If you have a look on the Dmt Nexus, there's a few threads and wikis with lists of herbs and herbal blends. I try to avoid smoking random herbs, simply because Idk if a certain herb may contain something that isn't good to inhale, long term.The dried flowers of certain species of Nymphaea and Nelumbo are sometimes smoked, made into a tea, or macerated in alcohol for a mild sedative effect. Blue Lotus is a mild relaxing herb on its own, and a wonderful relaxing potentiator for many plants and substances. It is frequently featured in smoking blends. It is very effective when mixed.Some applicants who test positive for THC while trying to join the Air Force and Space Force may get another opportunity to apply under a new pilot program being tested out by the services ...Inhalation brings much stronger and faster-acting effects but also dramatically increases the risk and severity of side effects. Blue lotus flower can be smoked by itself or mixed with other herbs. To smoke blue lotus, you can use a pipe, water pipe, or rolling papers.Imma be honest with you chief, I’m sure it’s something to do with me, but I smoked blue lotus (outta a tobacco pipe) all day and not even a Headchange took place. Made tea, boiled for around 10 mins, and I’m sitting pretty nice. Not high, but just enjoying a slight head-change. Iv smoked it by just taking deep hits from a pipe, and I ...Can you smoke blue lotus in the military? Recent changes in federal law make it illegal to possess most forms of Spice. Similarly, all marijuana substitutes are illegal in the Army and may subject the Soldier to court-martial, nonjudicial punishment (Article 15) or separation. ... You can grow blue lotus from the rhizomes (the underground parts ...

Phenibut is AMAZING, and can be bought online legally. And if you want to reset coke and meth magic, 9-me-bc (25mg every day for 10 days). And if you want to bring MDMA magic back, 600mg of NAC every day for 60 days. And when you draw ascii art, press shift 2 to draw a pussy! Reply reply.Blue Lotus itself is not detectable by urinalysis. Most products labeled as Blue Lotus contain synthetic cannabinoids, which is detected through testing. I was under the impression that herbs such as blue lotus, damiana and wild dagga were great alternatives for someone looking to ditch the cannabis….Thinking of smoking blue lotus. Recently I read that blue lotus is a smokable herb and it actually helps with lucid dreaming and libido. The ancient Egyptians used to get high on it.Blue lotus is a popular smoking herb because of its relaxing and soothing properties. Smoking blue lotus produces an noticeable "high" that lasts for about 30 minutes. We classify blue lotus as a supportive herb; It can be smoked on its own or blended with neutral base herbs such as damiana, mullein or raspberry leaves.Discover our Blue Lotus Collection, featuring whole flowers and prerolls, for an elevated relaxation experience like no other. ... I can't wait to smoke it !! S.T. 04/18/2024 . Blue Lotus Prerolls- 5 Pack . Love it. I sleep better and it's healthy alternative. Marcus Anderson . 04/16/2024 . Blue Lotus Prerolls- 5 Pack . Very nice smell ...If you smoke some Lotus and then sit down and relax you will not experience the full effects. You have to do a few things to bring the effects on, kind of like with 2CB at a low dose. ... The force feels slightly different if you are on Blue Lotus to Pink Lotus, and if you have them together you can feel it even stronger. Let your hands charge ...

There are a variety of substances you can inhale that can cause internal injuries, such as smoke and toxic fumes. Discover the symptoms and treatment. Inhalation injuries are acute...Blue Lotus: Blue lotus is a water lily native to Egypt. It has been used in ancient civilizations for its calming and sedative properties. Smoking blue lotus may induce a mild euphoria and relaxation. 4. Wild Lettuce: Wild lettuce, also known as opium lettuce, is native to Europe and North America.psychedelic. Blue lotus ( Nymphaea caerulea ), also known as the blue water lily, is a mildly psychoactive flower used as a sacrament by several early civilizations, most notably by the ancient Egyptians. It had an important role in their religious and social rituals, as well as a central one in their mythology and a lesser one in their medicine.Today I smoke the sacred Herb Blue Lotus (more specifically the critically acclaimed Jolly Lotus strain) and give some of my initial thoughts on the substanc...

Stardew valley statues.

I am wanting to try and smoke blue lotus but I'm worried it'll be too similar to weed which I can't smoke. I smoked weed for several years straight despite the fact that it gave me crippling paranoia and sometimes auditory hallucinations (I think I only kept smoking bc I was in highschool and it's what everyone did) is it likely I will have a similar reaction?Blue lotus can also be used as a tobacco replacement, but only if you're looking for a milder experience than traditional cigarettes or cigars. The side effect of using this as a substitute for tobacco is that it doesn't give off the same amount of nicotine as traditional cigarettes do. Conclusion - Can I smoke blue lotus?Nine are classified as synthetic cannabinoids, which many troops will probably recognize from the the wave of popularity of drugs like Spice and K2 in the military going back a decade or so. While ..."Thank you so much it was a great to buy from you guys. The blue lotus is amazing and it does feel relaxing after I drink it with honey and it just truth is organic 100% percent. Good luck 😍😍" ... blue lotus flower to smoke, blue lotus flower, blue lotus tea, blue lotus pre rolls, blue lotus tincture, and even blue lotus oil.Most people use it in the form of a tea. This way, you can determine the strength yourself by putting the desired amount of flower in a tea infuser and letting it steep as long as you want in hot water. If you like to combine it with cannabis or other smartdrugs, we recommend keeping the 50/50 ratio. So, 50% pink lotus and 50% cannabis.I personally recommend really spacing out your lotus doses. Tolerance builds up very fast and the most interesting effects are lost. At some point it isn't healthy and you're wasting plant material/money. Saying you wouldn't know what to do without is a clear sign there is now a problem.. since you've become dependant.

I would advise you make a tea with teabags and blue lotus to make a non-alcoholic drink of blue lotus instead of smoking it. Less is wasted. I have been on probation many times but I have never used blue lotus specifically on it. I have used nelumbo nucifera on It though before and it contains similar alkaloids and doesn't show up on drug ...We present a novel case of Blue Lotus-induced seizures that has yet to be reported in the literature. Methods: Case Report: A 22-year-old active duty man was found down by his roommate and taken to the local emergency department, where he was reported to have a generalized tonic-clonic seizure. The seizure was aborted with lorazepam, and he was ...There are many kinds of lotus flowers. You have blue lotus, white lotus, holy lotus, purple/red lotus. I have tried three of them and would like to know if you have any source regarding the statement you made. As a lotus enjoyer it would be sad to know that the currently sold species are not the original species consumed by the Egyptians. Blue lotus flowers consist of two potent alkaloids; Apomorphine and Nuciferine. Apomorphine is the non-selective dopamine receptor agonist and over-stimulates the D1 and D2 receptors. Moreover, it activates serotonin receptors and hence one of the chiefly causes of euphoria in consumers. This feeling of elation and joy is usually combined with ... Blue Lotus extract for vaping. I have just recently gotten into blue lotus and I love it a lot. I bought a cheap $15 ounce of it off etsy because that's pretty okay to lose if it didn't go well. Now that I've tried smoking blue lotus though, I want to be able to use it with a dab pen as well for convenience. I know that I can order blue lotus ...The article described a quasi-computer warfare or psychological warfare operations program initially conceived during the Gulf War for weaponization in space. It stated that holograms of this sort would include the projection of three-dimensional, holographic images as decoys, including "the appearance of an angry God" over the battlefield.10-30 grams of Blue Lotus petals and bulbs. Honey if you enjoy honey. Its pretty simple just add the bulbs and petals to your wine and add the honey if you want and then just re cork your wine. Put it in the fridge and leave it to ferment for as long as possible the longer the better, try 3 weeks if you can.Blue Lotus E-Liquid / Vape Juice. Our Blue Lotus E-liquid with 4% resin extract only requires a few puffs to experience it's natural, calming effects. Only resin extracts contain the effective components such as alkaloids. Even though there is only 4% of Resin Extract in our Blue Lotus E-liquid, it might clog your e-cig after a while.The blue lotus plant is delicate and aquatic-looking. Its oblong, gently rounded leaves can get 16 inches long, with narrow 6-inch flower petals, the whole plant spreading out across three feet. True to its name, its flowers are bluish, ranging from more of a whitish indigo to light sky blue with light yellow in the middle.Rachelle. If you take Blue Lotus you will likely not fail a drug test. This is because Blue lotus is not a THC, however it may be mixed with THC. If you get drug tested, do not take THC infused Blue lotus products including vape cartridges, softgel capsules, gummies, and tinctures.

Today I want to share with you how I tried smoking "Blue Lotus" for the first time. Oh yeah ... and I was getting attacked by a dog haha! Enjoy the live trip...

It kind of works but it's pretty inefficient and instead of burning like one would expect from a hash-like substance it just gets rock solid. You could also do something like this. That's exactly what happened to me. It only has effects when taken orally in my experience.Aug 4, 2021 · Eleven percent of service members report daily electronic cigarette use; among the enlisted ranks, this number rises to nearly 20%. 5 This prevalence makes knowledge regarding their potential complications paramount for the military medical provider. The blue lotus flower (Nypmhaea caerulea) has recently been observed to be one such alternative ... Dried blue lotus flowers can also be rolled and smoked or used in a vaporizer for vaping by grinding the dried blue lotus flowers. You can make blue lotus wine, as inspired by the Ancient Egyptians, by soaking dried blue lotus flowers in wine for a few days before consuming it. Inhaling the smoke of blue lotus is another way to enjoy …Place a small amount of the dried Blue Lotus flower into the rolling paper or tube, and carefully roll it into a cigarette shape. If using a pipe, pack the dried Blue Lotus flower into the bowl of the pipe. Light it using a lighter or match, and inhale the smoke slowly and steadily. Start with a small amount and gradually increase if desired.Discover our Blue Lotus Collection, featuring whole flowers and prerolls, for an elevated relaxation experience like no other. ... I can’t wait to smoke it !! S.T. 04/18/2024 . Blue Lotus Prerolls- 5 Pack . Love it. I sleep better and it’s healthy alternative. Marcus Anderson . 04/16/2024 . Blue Lotus Prerolls- 5 Pack . Very nice smell ...Anxiety suppression. Mild body high. Intense relaxation. Slowed breathing rate. Very mild drowsiness. I would say that the feeling of smoking blue lotus competes with the feeling of mixing diazepam and alcohol together- without exaggeration. My muscles feel very relaxed and my mind is calm. It is a little hard to walk as my legs feel heavy.It is better to Drink the tea AND smoke a joint or bowl with a generous amount in it. Drink the tea, chew on and eat the plant matter, and spark up some of the plant matter itself. Do not mix it with tobacco. Only mix it with weed or other herbs, tobacco won't do you much good. Taste can be pretty earthy to very floral.Blue lotus is a popular smoking herb because of its relaxing and soothing properties. Smoking blue lotus produces an noticeable "high" that lasts for about 30 minutes. We classify blue lotus as a supportive herb; It can be smoked on its own or blended with neutral base herbs such as damiana, mullein or raspberry leaves.

Coffee shops marshfield wi.

Great wall restaurant asheville.

The Blue Lotus Herb is one of the most beautiful plants highly admire by all the ancients. Blue lotus herb is a sight to see. No mud no lotus is a true testament to the polarities in this dimension. When sipped in a tea, used in a bath or smoked, Blue Lotus has a calming, euphoric and aphrodisiac quality. The sedation feeling give you sense of ...Mullein, or Verbascum thapsus, is a traditional herb known for its soft, hairy leaves and its usage in respiratory relief. Its active compounds may offer antiviral and anti-inflammatory benefits. When smoked, mullein imparts a mild flavor and a soothing effect on the lungs, although it's efficacy and safety through smoking require more research. It's legal to use, but as a plant, it's ...Marijuana is legal in the majority of states for either recreational or medicinal use. This means the number of people who have never smoked is falling rapidly. As a result, the U.S. Military must either pick recruits from a shallow pool of talent or face the facts. Weed is here to stay!Blue lotus ( Nymphaea caerulea) is an aquatic plant found in freshwater ponds and lakes around Eastern Africa. The flower of the blue lotus was closely associated with the sun. In the morning, when the sun rises, the petals open. At night, when the sun goes down, the petals close again.Answer Question. Answer (1 of 1): This all depends on how much Blue Lotus you have. Unfortunately, it can show as an opiate if you have a large amount, but if we're talking about one-off recreational use, then it's unlikely your Blue Lotus use will show up on a tox screen.Another important factor is how long after use does the drug test take ...I have tried a wider variety of plant medicines than most people ever will in their lifetimes and blue lotus is absolutely one of my favorite herbs. I prefer to use the stamens as I find them to be quiet a bit more potent. the last time I was really into using blue lotus, I was using far too much and getting some unpleasant effects and after ...Some applicants who test positive for THC while trying to join the Air Force and Space Force may get another opportunity to apply under a new pilot program being tested out by the services ...javaper. •. It's gotta be better than kratom. That stuff just gives me a major headache. Reply. Destined2hak. •. In my opinion, alot better then Kratom, and im on 2 SSRIs never any issues. Reply.Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games ... ….

The four products, labeled “Blue Lotus Herbal E-liquid,” “Blue Lotus Flower Powder,” “Blue Lotus Resin Extract,” and “Space Lotus Resin Extract,” were purchased from www.lotus-extracts.com. The e-liquid was contained in a 10 mL plastic bottle, the resins were in solid blocks, and the powder was in a plastic bag labeled as 10 grams.Blue Lotus is prohibited under Army Regulation (AR) 600-85, para 4-2, I, (1) and (9). Soldiers who violate this policy may be subject to UCMJ action under Article 92, Failure to Obey a Lawful...Yes you can smoke Wild Dagga and many people like smoking wild dagga as a natural tobacco alternative as an ingredient in herbal smoking blends or as a complement to their favorite legal herb. The vibrant orange petals of this smokable flower native to South Africa are either mixed with other legal smokable herbs like Damiana , Rosemary ...Inhalation brings much stronger and faster-acting effects but also dramatically increases the risk and severity of side effects. Blue lotus flower can be …Don't see anything on smoking it. Also, possible ancient Egyptian psychoactive brew: blue lotus buds, mandrake fruits, and poppy capsules. CatfishRivers Bluelight Crew. Joined Jan 26, 2004 Messages 2,180. Apr 10, 2006 ... Blue lotus DEFINITELY either A) potentiates codeine or B) adds something else to the high that pushes you in a similar ...Pairing Blue Lotus Flower with Cannabis amplifies the relaxation and euphoric effects of your high. This delightful pairing not only deepens the sense of relaxation but also fosters a meditative state, inviting you to explore the inner realms of your consciousness. Pairing Ganja with the Blue Lotus can extend the longevity of your cannabis ...Like those calming teas that you can smoke, because I have alot of organic chamomile and have had it for a while. ... Same With Blue Lotus, Damiana, St Johns Wort, Mugwort, Sage, Basil, and shit like that. I only really wanna smoke Lotus and Chamomile and maybe Mugwort. ... I was mostly curious because they said you cant smoke "Spice" now in ...The, you're right. I should definitely up my dose of blue lotus. But 1 tsp is actually 5 grams. But I didn't think about a serving of wine being less than a cup. So I put 10 grams of blue lotus in 16 oz of wine when I should have put at least 15 grams (3 tsp) into 16 oz of wine.🤔 probably a little more. I guess its time for experiment number 2. Can you smoke blue lotus in the military, The other herbs I tried are: Damiana (dreadful to smoke) Blue lotus. Skullcap. Raspberry Leaf (burns horribly, will side burn your joint every time) I've read that mixing blue lotus with weed can give you nausea. I'm interested in trying it, but don't know why someone would smoke it when it can be easily drank., There's limited research on the general effects of cannabis on bipolar disorder symptoms, particularly THC. We explore the positive and negative impact of cannabis on this conditio..., Hello guys as some of you know I can't smoke weed anymore so I purchased blue lotus and I gonna try it i just gonna roll it up and smoke it , maybe mix it with tobacco . I don't expect much from it . Have any of you guys tried it And if yes .? What was your experience and what do you feel after smoking it ., Last seen: 5 years, 10 months. Blue Lotus (MAOI) + shrooms = ? #13866200 - 01/28/11 02:11 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) Edit. Reply. Quote. Quick Reply. I was wondering if anyone had ever tried smoking blue lotus prior to tripping on shrooms. Supposedly its a natural MAOI and the idea is that it will potentiate the effects of the mushrooms., Blue Lotus E-Liquid / Vape Juice. Our Blue Lotus E-liquid with 4% resin extract only requires a few puffs to experience it's natural, calming effects. Only resin extracts contain the effective components such as alkaloids. Even though there is only 4% of Resin Extract in our Blue Lotus E-liquid, it might clog your e-cig after a while., Jul 5, 2021 · Bottom line -- Do not use Blue Lotus Flower tea, oil, or any other form grown or manufactured. Blue Lotus in any form is illegal and inconsistent in its makeup. Service members do not really know what they are ingesting/smoking/drinking. , Ouch, thanks for the heads-up, I often take like 400-500mg of 100x. Maybe I should stop doing that and go for the raw flower instead 😕. Put it this way: crack cocaine is a plant extract in the exact same way kratom, lotus, kava, cannabis, etc. extracts are. Shit gets serious when you start processing the plant., Complementary Operation Four Horsemen stops over 800 pounds in first month. WASHINGTON - DHS issued an update today on Operation Blue Lotus as part of the Biden Administration's significant and historic actions to disrupt the trafficking of synthetic drugs, representing a major contribution to a government-wide effort to save lives and pursue justice and accountability., 10-30 grams of Blue Lotus petals and bulbs. Honey if you enjoy honey. Its pretty simple just add the bulbs and petals to your wine and add the honey if you want and then just re cork your wine. Put it in the fridge and leave it to ferment for as long as possible the longer the better, try 3 weeks if you can., A: Herbal vaporizers designed for dried cannabis flower can be used to smoke blue lotus. Ensure your vaporizer is suitable and adjust the temperature settings to your preference. Q: Can I mix blue lotus with cannabis or tobacco? A: Combining blue lotus with cannabis or tobacco is not uncommon. Keep in mind that doing so can alter its effects., Step 1: Check the ingredients. Take a close look at the label of the lotus drink to see if it contains any added sugars or sweeteners. It is generally recommended to limit sugar intake during pregnancy, as excessive sugar consumption can lead to complications such as gestational diabetes. Step 2: Assess your tolerance., Blue Lotus is prohibited under Army Regulation (AR) 600-85, para 4-2, I, (1) and (9). Soldiers who violate this policy may be subject to UCMJ action under Article 92, Failure to Obey a Lawful..., I've recently brought some blue lotus that i plan on smoking but idk if it would react badly with certain medication. the medication i'm on is fluoxetine 40mg (antidepressant), melatonin (not sure of the dose but it's low), codine (30-60mg pain killer) and quetiapine 50mg (antipsychotic), However, now all the kids are vaping. I didn't start smoking/dipping until AIT because I was 29 years old and not allowed to drink. I've since quit smoking and use tobacco free nicotine pouches, but it's very common across the military in general, not just the Army or even combat arms. It's 50/50 for me., 4/5 (66,675 Views . 41 Votes) I find that to get a noticeable effect, at least 300mg has to be smoked. As a result I would recommend you make an extract, which can be simply done by soaking 4g blue lotus in ISO for a good few days, filtering and then evaporating onto a gram of blue lotus. Regarding this, does smoking blue lotus get you high?, Some people report having vivid dreams after smoking blue lotus. Eucalyptus & Mullein. Though sometimes smoking is the last thing you feel like doing when you're congested and not feeling well, this combo can help with breathing issues and encourage what's referred to as "effective coughing" as an expectorant., You know it's unhealthy but you do it anyway—but what if your partner isn't cool with that? You already know smoking is bad for you. There are billboards and commercials and pictur..., You would probably have to use a blue lotus concentrate. You might want to add some resin or absolute oil to a cannabis edible recipe, actually. They go very nicely together. The prior poster is of course correct that you needn't decarb it. As for dose, try several and let us know what worked., Blue lotus flowers consist of two potent alkaloids; Apomorphine and Nuciferine. Apomorphine is the non-selective dopamine receptor agonist and over-stimulates the D1 and D2 receptors. Moreover, it activates serotonin receptors and hence one of the chiefly causes of euphoria in consumers. This feeling of elation and joy is usually combined with ..., 1. Revoran. • 12 yr. ago. None of the standard or expanded tests test for aporphine. It also should not cause any false positives for anything. Also it is not an illegal substance so even if they tested for it ... it wouldn't matter. You can go into the place carrying your blue lotus if you like. In fact, I'm not sure why you'd want to be ..., Blue lotus tincture. The tincture is a liquid extract made at about 5x concentration to standard blue lotus flower. Blue lotus wine. The most traditional and all-time favourite! You can make your own blue lotus wine by simply soaking the flowers/buds in some normal wine (or even liquor) for a few hours., The experts at Smoke Guard will consider all areas of your space, from its potentially flammable design features. Expert Advice On Improving Your Home Videos Latest View All Guides..., I would advise you make a tea with teabags and blue lotus to make a non-alcoholic drink of blue lotus instead of smoking it. Less is wasted. I have been on probation many times but I have never used blue lotus specifically on it. I have used nelumbo nucifera on It though before and it contains similar alkaloids and doesn't show up on drug ..., Yes you can smoke Wild Dagga and many people like smoking wild dagga as a natural tobacco alternative as an ingredient in herbal smoking blends or as a complement to their favorite legal herb. The vibrant orange petals of this smokable flower native to South Africa are either mixed with other legal smokable herbs like Damiana , Rosemary ..., Avg. 4-7 days shipping - Ships from Canada. 4.73. Back in stock, sells fast! Ships from Canada. Blue Lotus is a rare exotic herb with relaxing properties. It is a popular addition to herbal blend. Quantity. Clear. The 2 ounce variant (56 grams) comes in a standard stand-up pouch that blocks UV rays., gjhaggard. Hi i'm here to make this forum about blue lotus and valerian root vape juice. So for a few years i vaped this vape juice called blue lotus or valerian root. It claimed to have great effects to heal anxiety and stress and depression also a good nights rest. Well i want to make this forum for anyone looking for help., blue___lotus Moderator • 2 yr. ago. Blue Lotus is a relatively safe / harm free substance overall (aside from the damage caused by smoke inhilation), so if you feel the urge to explore these things, the tea form would be a very subtle and nice sort of pronounced state of relaxation., It is better to Drink the tea AND smoke a joint or bowl with a generous amount in it. Drink the tea, chew on and eat the plant matter, and spark up some of the plant matter itself. Do not mix it with tobacco. Only mix it with weed or other herbs, tobacco won't do you much good. Taste can be pretty earthy to very floral., Blue lotus resin/extract. I bought some 200x extract powder and the vendor gave me a good-sized glob of resin as a freebie. I haven't tried either product yet and I'm wondering what the best method of consumption would be for each of these. I have a blue lotus vape and it's great for helping me fall asleep, but it's also pretty harsh ..., Can you smoke blue lotus in the military? Recent changes in federal law make it illegal to possess most forms of Spice. Similarly, all marijuana substitutes are illegal in the Army and may subject the Soldier to court-martial, nonjudicial punishment (Article 15) or separation. ... You can grow blue lotus from the rhizomes (the underground parts ..., Dec 17, 2023 · 4. What happens if I test positive for Blue Lotus in the military? Since Blue Lotus is not typically included in military drug tests, it is unlikely that you will test positive for it. 5. What does Blue Lotus do to the body? Blue Lotus is believed to have mild psychoactive effects and may promote relaxation and a sense of well-being. , By now, you've probably gathered that, yes, you can smoke Amanita muscaria. And the best part is that you can buy pre-rolled and prepared shroom joints from trusted stores like ours. That way, you don't have to worry about drying the mushroom or rolling the joint (it's an art, after all). The Fly Agaric joint from our store contains one gram of ..., What you likely have is nymphaea nouchali, which does contain similar alkaloids to blue lotus. Grinders are pointless, it comes out exactly as it went in. Might be my grinder tho. Rolling joints is messy, the leaves are very smooth and the stamens fly everywhere. Use a tray. A bong is really the simplest way.