Eb2 row

EB2 - ROW : r/USCIS. Green Card approved. EB2 - ROW. I am glad to share my approval timeline with you all. This space has been super helpful during the wait, so it’s my way to pay back. I140 Timeline: I-140 04/2022 Premium Processing (approved in 5 days) AOS Timeline (standalone): I-485, AP, EAD: Submitted on Aug 2022. Fingerprints: Sep 2022.

Eb2 row. The key difference between EB-2 and EB-3 is that the latter has a lot more flexibility. Without a doubt, EB-3 requirements are a lot more lenient than EB-2, which allows more people to qualify for it. There are many potential pathways available to foreigners seeking to enter the US through an employment-based green card.

I-485 Approved (EB2 ROW) Hi ya'll! After moving to the US 18 years ago as a teenager, I finally got my permanent residency! ... This was before the actual recommendation from USCIS that it be submitted from the start. Why the EB applicants are punished by not sending them the 693-RFE immediately, like other GC classes, is a mystery to me. ...

EB2 ROW. This is to give back a little bit to this awesome community which has made the wait bearable. Application for me and my spouse went to NBC, FO was Seattle. Was on F-1 Visa before, I-140 was approved in June in premium processing; did not file concurrently and sent medical forms along with application. Timeline is as follows:Apr 26, 2024 ... USCIS released approval and denial data for Quarter 1 Fiscal Year 2024 so we can calculate the approval rates for EB1A (Extraordinary ...The Oklahoma death row inmate scheduled to be executed in September 2023 for the 1996 killing of a University of Oklahoma dance student said Thursday, June 22, 2023, that he …Given current trends, the analysis projects that by FY2030, the EB1 backlog would grow from an estimated 119,732 individuals to an estimated 268,246 individuals; the EB2 …I-130 & I-485 (AOS) As per title, any predictions for december 2023 visa bulletin? Specifically interested in EB3 RoW and EB2 RoW. I personally don’t think it’s moving till January 2024. Maybe EB2 row will move 1-2 weeks ahead. Thanks! no, people generally believe that EB2 ROW will never become current again with the backlog and the increasing number of EB2 NIW applications from all over the world. with a PD of July 2023, you will be lucky to be able to submit the I-485 in October of 2024 and then you may have to wait until early 2025 for the FAD to reach your July ...

EB2 ROW Priority Dates. My EB2 NIW priority date is April 28, 2023. When will the visa bulletin reach this date? Hi there! This is an automated message to inform you and/or remind you of several things: We have a wiki. It doesn't cover everything but may answer some questions.Hi, I thought I share my EB2-NIW timeline. Qualifications: Ph.D. in Materials Science. 4 first-authored papers (~160 citations) 14 co-authored papers (~700 citations) 2 patents. 3 years of industrial experience in the biosensor field. Endeavor: Lab on chip sector advancement in the USA. August 19, 2022: I-140, I-485, I-131, I-765 (filed ...EB-2 ROW Visa bulletin prediction for December 2023. It appears there will be no movement in the visa bulletin for the remainder of this Fiscal year. There is some hope in October 2023 that the visa bulletin for EB-2 ROW will move to June 2022. What do you think about December 2023 visa bulletin? EB2 ROW I-485 Approved. I-140 (Employment/Consular processing) PD October 26 2022 Card is being produced as on April 22. Really happy and rooting for everyone still waiting. 54 Share. Add a Comment. Sort by: Search Comments. cngocn. Probably late 2025 or early 2026. Method 1: Date has improved 3 weeks in the past 12 months (March 2023 to March 2024). Feb 2024 is 15 months after the date in March 2024 FAD chart. 15 * 52 / 3 / 12 = 22 years. Method 2: Date has improved 4.5 months in the past 6 months (Sep 2023 to March 2024). Rowing machines are becoming popular equipment choices in modern workout routines, and it’s not hard to see why. With varied resistance settings and an easy learning curve, these m...Date: EB2 ROW: EB2 China: EB2 India: EB2 Mexico: EB2 Philippines: May 2024: 1 Year 3 Months 17 Days : 4 Years 3 Months : 12 Years 16 Days : 1 Year 3 Months 17 Days

Tip: Click on headings below (EB2 ROW, EB2 China, etc) to view detailed data for 15+ yrs. Discuss With Everyone: View Previous 16,500+ comments. More Discussions …ROW: Rest of the World (All countries and regions except those listed separately, such as China-mainland born and India). China: China-mainland born. EB1: Employment-Based First Preference (Priority Workers) EB2: Employment-Based Second Preference (Members of the Professions Holding Advanced Degrees or Persons of Exceptional Ability)• In April, USCIS will return to accepting adjustment of status applications based on the Visa Bulletin Final Action Dates chart, rather than the more generous Dates for Filing chart that it had been using the past several months. • Next month, EB-1 India and China will maintain their Final Action cutoff date of February 1, 2022. • The EB-2 Worldwide Final Action …Per the December 2022 visa bulletin, EB2 is no longer current for ROW. It looks like India also retrogressed further. Archived post. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. For RoW, if your priority date is earlier than Nov 1, 2022 then you're fine. First time I am seeing RoW not being current for all EB categories.

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Dec 11, 2023 · Regarding Table B, the January 2024 Visa Bulletin shows Rest of World (ROW) advancing one month, from January 2023 to February 2023. China and India remain with the same dates than in the December visa bulletin. USCIS has announced that applicants in the US must use Table B to file adjustment of status. This is the best situation for adjustment ... EB2 ROW with PD after July 7, 2022 I-485 (General) Any EB2 with PD after July 7, 2022 seeing movement on their I-485? Or we have to hold tight till January? Locked post. New comments cannot be posted. Share Sort by: Best. … 485 submitted with medical in March 2021, biometrics June 2021. I-140 - approved in March 2021. Received EAD/AP, but no progress with 485. EB-2, ROW. With NBC, expect it within two months (40-50 days). I know there have been many people waiting for what seems like eternity and I’m sure the answer is going to be a couple of months. However ... Feb 23, 2024 ... There is one proposed endeavor USCIS does not love for an EB2 NIW green card petition. Here I tell which one it is, why they hate it and two ...Apr 26, 2024 ... USCIS released approval and denial data for Quarter 1 Fiscal Year 2024 so we can calculate the approval rates for EB1A (Extraordinary ...Are you looking to add a new piece of cardio equipment to your home gym? With so many options available, it can be overwhelming to choose the best one. One popular choice is a rowi...

Visa Bulletin For May 2023 - EB2 ROW retrogresses again. I-140 & I-485 (AOS) Visa bulleting for May 2023 has been released. EB2 Category for rest of the world (ROW) has …When would my PD become current (EB2 ROW)? Timeline Request So, I am currently in the US on a nonimmigrant visa and was able to extend my status to December 2026. I have already started preparing my EB2-NIW petition with Chen Immigration with the refund option. However, I am having some second thoughts about that because of the giant …The key difference between EB-2 and EB-3 is that the latter has a lot more flexibility. Without a doubt, EB-3 requirements are a lot more lenient than EB-2, which allows more people to qualify for it. There are many potential pathways available to foreigners seeking to enter the US through an employment-based green card.The dates can move forward and go back each month. Check the USCIS Visa Bulletin for Family-Based Green Cards. There are two types of charts: #1 Date of Filing Chart. If your PD date is current in the ‘Date of filing chart’ then you can file: Form i-485 for a green card. Form i765 (for EAD) – Check i-485 EAD approval time. I applied for EB2 (ROW) and got my I=140 approved with PD being 18 Jan 2023. Today's visa bulletin of January 2024 says "dates for filing EB2-ROW" is 15 Feb 2023. What is EB2 ROW? Like this thread 0 0. Watch this thread Start a new thread Add a post. Thread is empty. Showing 1 to 0 of 0 rows. Source: CompareRemit. Can someone …Aug 8, 2023 ... EB2 advances for ROW, Mexico, and Philippines + 3 months; EB3 advances for China + 3 months. Date of Filing Application. September 2023 Visa ...Mar 25, 2018 ... Because EB2 ROW demand is high EB2 India will get no spillovers from there. But EB3 India will get spillovers from ROW. That is why in FY ... EB2ROW PD March22 Filed Feb23 still no update since biometrics/transfer to NBC last March23. EB2-ROW PD May 2022, filed Feb 2023, got my EAD/AP, case was transferred to Chicago FO in May, waiting for medical RFE, not sure how long it will take. Just received notice of request of additional evidence. PD June 2022 - EB2 ROW.

Tip: Click on headings below (EB2 ROW, EB2 China, etc) to view detailed data for 15+ yrs. Discuss With Everyone: View Previous 16,500+ comments. More Discussions …

EB-2 (ROW) priority date movement? I-140 & I-485 (AOS) Do you guys expect any movement for the EB-2 (ROW) priority date in the rest of 2023? Archived post. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. 2. Probably late 2025 or early 2026. Method 1: Date has improved 3 weeks in the past 12 months (March 2023 to March 2024). Feb 2024 is 15 months after the date in March 2024 FAD chart. 15 * 52 / 3 / 12 = 22 years. Method 2: Date has improved 4.5 months in the past 6 months (Sep 2023 to March 2024). As discussed above, the EB1 has more stringent requirements than the EB2 and because of this, there are less applicants for it each year. With less applicants, the wait times tend to be shorter than that of the EB2. Of course, wait times differ based on the applicant’s country of citizenship, and priority times are updated monthly on the Visa ...Eligibility. Hello everyone, thanks in advance for any and all responses. I just recently heard about the EB2 NIW and am tryna look more deeply into it to see if i have any chance of being eligible for it. Some background info about me. I was brought into the US illegally at the age of 10 with no legal entry.Demand: EB-2 ROW approvals grew from 17,000 in 2014 to 20,000 in 2019. In 2022 and 2023, EB-2 ROW had over 23,000 principal applications approved, well above what the category can accommodate. EB-3 ROW has been well above their threshold, and growing, since around 2017, so it was never going to be a reliable source of spillover visas.eb1需求上升,导致EB1给EB2的spillover减少。只要EB1任何国家出现排期,就基本没有垂直spillover给EB2了。 EB2的总体供给减少,逐渐导致EB2全球排期的出现。 而全球EB2排期又会反过来促使部分EB2也改投EB1,进一步恶化EB1的排期。恶性循环。EB2 Row, same PD oct 22, case status remains: case update to show fingerprints were taken since our biometrics in nov 2023. no updates. fatima h Mar 28, 2024. EB2 ROW priority date December 2022. Both AP and EAD were approved. I got RFE for I485, they needed my birth certificate. D.Recent trends in EB-2 NIW (National Interest Waiver) adjudication. April 17, 2023. Since 2022, there have been quite a few changes in how USCIS approaches national interest waiver (NIW) cases. In the beginning of 2022, the government issued an updated policy for STEM and Entrepreneur applicants, expanding the types of evidence STEM graduates ... Hi, I thought I share my EB2-NIW timeline. Qualifications: Ph.D. in Materials Science. 4 first-authored papers (~160 citations) 14 co-authored papers (~700 citations) 2 patents. 3 years of industrial experience in the biosensor field. Endeavor: Lab on chip sector advancement in the USA. August 19, 2022: I-140, I-485, I-131, I-765 (filed ... EB-2 worldwide has ticked forward seven days to July 8, 2022, and EB-3 worldwide has advanced eighteen months to December 1, 2021. EB-2 and EB-3 final action dates for India have advanced—EB-2 ...

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My take on the April 2024 Visa bulletin on a EB-2 ROW perspective. Those who argued for a big forward movement of FAD can claim victory. I would consider a 7 week movement a big jump. The large batch of I-140 in Q1 FY23 can now get their I-485 adjudicated. Just as stated in the October 2023 visa bulletin, forward movement is expected every quarter. EB2 ROW PD: Aug 2022 Application delivered to Lockbox on: Oct 19th, 2023 Receipt Date and Service Center: Oct. 29th, 2022, letter arrived Nov 10th - NBC Biometrics Appointment Notice sent on: issued Nov 4th, received letter on Nov 14th, 2023 Biometrics Appointment Date: Nov 20th, 2023 - updated Nov 21st to fingerprint print taken. When it comes to setting up a home gym, investing in a rowing machine can be an excellent choice. Not only does rowing provide a full-body workout, but it is also low-impact and ca...The Oklahoma death row inmate scheduled to be executed in September 2023 for the 1996 killing of a University of Oklahoma dance student said Thursday, June 22, 2023, that he …EB2 ROW I-485 Approved. I-140 (Employment/Consular processing) PD October 26 2022 Card is being produced as on April 22. Really happy and rooting for everyone still waiting. 54 Share. Add a Comment. Sort by: Search Comments. cngocn.EB2 ROW, Any idea/prediction on when the date will become current for application with PD on March 30, 2022? I applied 9 months ago, was current for 7 months, and then the dates retrogressed. So many applied after me have got approved. Unlucky me. #EB2 #485 #retrogression. March 2022 should be current by October 2023 at the latest. Probably late 2025 or early 2026. Method 1: Date has improved 3 weeks in the past 12 months (March 2023 to March 2024). Feb 2024 is 15 months after the date in March 2024 FAD chart. 15 * 52 / 3 / 12 = 22 years. Method 2: Date has improved 4.5 months in the past 6 months (Sep 2023 to March 2024). Probably late 2025 or early 2026. Method 1: Date has improved 3 weeks in the past 12 months (March 2023 to March 2024). Feb 2024 is 15 months after the date in March 2024 FAD chart. 15 * 52 / 3 / 12 = 22 years. Method 2: Date has improved 4.5 months in the past 6 months (Sep 2023 to March 2024).Today we bring you answers to three questions about green cards in the EB-1A category for extraordinary ability and multinational managers, EB-2 NIW and with PERM, as well as EB-3 for professionals!EB2 - ROW : r/USCIS. Green Card approved. EB2 - ROW. I am glad to share my approval timeline with you all. This space has been super helpful during the wait, so it’s my way to pay back. I140 Timeline: I-140 04/2022 Premium Processing (approved in 5 days) AOS Timeline (standalone): I-485, AP, EAD: Submitted on Aug 2022. Fingerprints: Sep 2022.如题,8月的排期表,eb2 row的排期被卡到2014年2月1日了,瞬间感到无比开心。 让其他国家的人也试试排期,同时这也意味着阿三们再也拿不到多余的ROW名额了,一年3000多名额让他们排去吧,反正天朝人民的名额不受影响,因为有阿三在,天朝人民已经多年没有拿 ... ….

EB2 (Not NIW), ROW, Filed I-485 with medical in early December 2023, PD from approved I-140 is Aug 2022 (approved in Oct 2023) I’m looking at the visa bulletin for Jan 2024 and having a hard time understanding it, which dates should I …EB2 NIW includes people from India, China, etc., and is not a separate category in the visa bulletin. This means that EB2 NIW applicants from countries other than those with backlogs are listed under EB2 ROW. If you have an NIW-based petition from one of the backlogged countries, you should look at the EB2 category for that specific country.For visitors, travel, student and other international travel medical insurance. Visit insubuy.com or call +1 (866) INSUBUY or +1 (972) 985-4400The “priority date” is the date an applicant files their I-140 petition. Let’s say you filed your EB2 NIW petition on January 30, 2023 with premium processing, and your petition was approved on March 15, 2023. January 30, 2023 is your priority date. You can find your priority date on your I-797 Receipt Notice or Approval Notice. EB2 Visa Retrogression - ROW. “USCIS has reviewed your Service Request. According to USCIS records, your case has already gone through the adjudicative process, and unfortunately your visa has regressed. We are unable to move forward with your application until a visa becomes available. My priority date is current and the fiscal year year ... The October 2023 visa bulletin shows the following for EB2-ROW: - Final action date: 08 JUL 22 (one week only movement from Sept bulletin) - Filing date: 01 JAN 23 (one month movement from Sept bulletin) However, I saw that the filing date was 01 Dec 2022 for the entire FY2023! Does this mean that almost certainly the filing date will remain 01 ... Note, I'm in ROW category for the green card. Approximate, when will the EB2 become current. I assume if it becomes current before my visa expires I can stay in the US.EB2 NIW includes people from India, China, etc., and is not a separate category in the visa bulletin. This means that EB2 NIW applicants from countries other than those with backlogs are listed under EB2 ROW. If you have an NIW-based petition from one of the backlogged countries, you should look at the EB2 category for that specific country. Eb2 row, I-485 EB2 ROW approved . Posting my timeline here to give everyone some hope, especially those affected by the EB2 retrogression. I hope you get a positive and speedy decision on your case. June 2022: I-140 submitted September 2022: I-485, I-131, and I …, EB2 ROW went from July 1, 2022 in the April Visa Bulletin, backwards to February 15, 2022. EB3 ROW went from “current” in the April Visa Bulletin, backwards to June 1, 2022. In addition, the May 2023 Visa Bulletin’s end notes include ominous predictions of more retrogression (backwards movement) in the months ahead., The DOS reports usage of 1,500 to 2,000 visa numbers per month in EB2 ROW from such upgrade cases. While this is not enough of a demand to require a cutoff date, it impacts the availability of excess visa numbers in this category, which would otherwise be made available to EB2 cases from the oversubscribed countries, India and …, My EB2 I-485 status changed to Case Remains Pending (CRP) on Feb 1 2024, next on March 01 the date on the status changed, and status remains the same(CRP) with 03/01 as new date. My ROW PD becomes current in April 2024 visa bulletin. Why the status date changed exactly after one month. Is it periodic update/check from USCIS system?, The risk with this approach is if demand increases in other EB categories (EB1, EB4, EB5 and EB2 ROW) in FY 2014, EB2 India could become unavailable. Important Notes: April 2005 date is based on July 2013 demand data (DOS did not release August and September demand data)., Jan 8, 2022 I-140 Approved. Detailed timeline for I-485. May 17, 2022 Case Was Approved. May 16, 2022 We ordered your new card. (Officer approved on the spot at the interview) April 14, 2022 We scheduled an interview for your Form I-485, Application to Register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status. April 5, 2022 We are ready to schedule your ..., Just want to get an estimate of how much i485 inventory USCIS is still clearing through despite these FADs being current since January. I'm EB2 ROW, NIW. PD is early August 2022. Filed the I-485 in January 2023 with medicals and completed biometrics in Feb 2023. Last update was Case Remains Pending in July 2023., Dec 11, 2023 · Regarding Table B, the January 2024 Visa Bulletin shows Rest of World (ROW) advancing one month, from January 2023 to February 2023. China and India remain with the same dates than in the December visa bulletin. USCIS has announced that applicants in the US must use Table B to file adjustment of status. This is the best situation for adjustment ... , ZestycloseAd5312. I485 approved. EB2 ROW. Timeline: Work. September 1, 2021 New Card Is Being Produced. Aug 24 I 485j receipt. Aug 10 Biometrics. May 20, 2021 We accepted the fingerprint fee for your Form I-485, Application to Register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status. Our National Benefits Center location is working on your case. , 那既然国别被无视了,剩下的必须排序的就是PD。. 所以,整个 EB 绿卡名额的发放逻辑是这样的:. 第零步,加上上一年 FB 来的名额,形成EB的年度总名额。. 在正常情况,FB过来的名额是0,所以EB的年度总名额就是 140,000. 第一步,按PD来,比如对于EB2,先给印度 ... , EB2 ROW 12/22 PD - concurrent filing or not? I-140 & I-485 (AOS) I have heard nonconcurrent filing is faster but with the retrogression of EB2 ROW FAD, what is the best course of action?, Hi there! This is an automated message to inform you and/or remind you of several things: We have a wiki.It doesn't cover everything but may answer some questions., eb1需求上升,导致EB1给EB2的spillover减少。只要EB1任何国家出现排期,就基本没有垂直spillover给EB2了。 EB2的总体供给减少,逐渐导致EB2全球排期的出现。 而全球EB2排期又会反过来促使部分EB2也改投EB1,进一步恶化EB1的排期。恶性循环。, Backlog will actually increase to even 21-25 months, given the recent spike in NIW applications, and the fact that FB to EB spillovers will cease to exist (almost), going from a total of 275,000 to 197,000 to 161,000 this FY. In the future ~145,000 or so, which means ~35,000 green cards for the year for EB-2 ROW (86% of 28.6% of ~145,000)., EB I-485 Overview. EB adjustment of status is a discretionary benefit based on the principal applicant’s intended permanent employment in the U.S. Congress sets the numeric limitations on EB visas, which are further divided into preference categories (for example, first, second, and third preference workers)., In October 2023, when the new FY starts, we will have roughly 36,000 GCs set aside for ROW countries in EB2. But the Apr 2022 - Dec 2022 demand alone is ~35,000. This means that EB2 will not jump forward to current status. Hell it might not even jump forward to 1st Jan 2023., Seems like most posters here are family-based or EB without PERM, so wanted to post my complete timeline for my fellows DOL applicants (hang in there): DOL Process - 2 years overall: Submitted PWD to DOL: 5/2021. PWD Approved: 2/2022 (9 months) Submitted PERM to DOL: 8/2022 (this became my priority date for I-485) PERM Approved: 5/2023 (9 ... , This year is extremely unlikely. The DoF is an estimate of where the Department of State hopes the final action date will be in roughly 8-12 months. The government is therefore currently estimating that those with PDs of Dec 31, 2022 or earlier will consume all visa numbers this year., My Priority date becomes current on April 2024. My PD is December 2022 and I485 receipt date is October 2023. Category ROW EB2. But from January my case is showing pending. Who are in same situation - please share your experience. Kindly let me know any way to get approved soon., EB2 NIW includes people from India, China, etc., and is not a separate category in the visa bulletin. This means that EB2 NIW applicants from countries other than those with backlogs are listed under EB2 ROW. If you have an NIW-based petition from one of the backlogged countries, you should look at the EB2 category for that specific country., ※ 引述《grox (grox)》之銘言: : 大家好, 昨天看了剛公佈的 2022 12月的排期表, : EB2 全球 很罕見地出現了排期?是因為申請者太多嗎? 是因為申請者太多嗎?, Same here. EB-2 NIW ROW filed on October 5th.Case Remains Pending as of January 29th. However, my EAD was approved in late November 2023. My PD is 06DEC22.Hopefully in March 2024 visa bulletin, FAD will go past the PD and the application can resume.Based on all I've read around the www, it may take another 30-45 days for …, Feb 2024 bulletin prediction: January 2024 visa bulletin copy+pasted. It will be just the same as Jan 2024. Well, according to their website, date advancements reflect an intention to keep visa issuance within quarterly limits. So maybe, some changes will be on April 2024 again. , Jun 20, 2022 ... For EB-2 NIW the correct row to look at is the row for 2nd Employment-based. Next, determine which column you need to select. For most ..., Aug 8, 2023 ... EB2 advances for ROW, Mexico, and Philippines + 3 months; EB3 advances for China + 3 months. Date of Filing Application. September 2023 Visa ..., EB2 ROW PD: Aug 2022 Application delivered to Lockbox on: Oct 19th, 2023 Receipt Date and Service Center: Oct. 29th, 2022, letter arrived Nov 10th - NBC Biometrics Appointment Notice sent on: issued Nov 4th, received letter on Nov 14th, 2023 Biometrics Appointment Date: Nov 20th, 2023 - updated Nov 21st to fingerprint print taken., EB2 ROW Priority Dates. My EB2 NIW priority date is April 28, 2023. When will the visa bulletin reach this date? Hi there! This is an automated message to inform you and/or remind you of several things: We have a wiki. It doesn't cover everything but may answer some questions., The October 2023 visa bulletin shows the following for EB2-ROW: - Final action date: 08 JUL 22 (one week only movement from Sept bulletin) - Filing date: 01 JAN 23 (one month movement from Sept bulletin) However, I saw that the filing date was 01 Dec 2022 for the entire FY2023! Does this mean that almost certainly the filing date will remain 01 ..., Heathrow Airport is one of the busiest airports in the world, and it’s an amazing sight to behold. But unless you’re actually at the airport, it can be hard to get a good view of t..., EB2 row dof/fad . I-140 & I-485 (AOS) Hi Folks, my pd is oct 2023. And my stem opt expires february 2025. Can I atleast file my i485 before that? I am planning to apply for h1b this year as well, but I am a person who has never won anything in a lottery, so not keeping my hopes up on that. What about day1cpt as a back up option?, Just want to get an estimate of how much i485 inventory USCIS is still clearing through despite these FADs being current since January. I'm EB2 ROW, NIW. PD is early August 2022. Filed the I-485 in January 2023 with medicals and completed biometrics in Feb 2023. Last update was Case Remains Pending in July 2023., Nov 10, 2023 ... The December 2023 Visa Bulletin has just been released and we analyze the movements in this video. This is particularely focused on EB2 NIW ..., By the 1980’s most of Film Row would become a haven for bars, prostitutions, and drugs. As jobless rates and drug use soared, many of the homeless converged on the former …